Curt Seaburg.com

Small Group Disussion on "Why Would a Loving God Send People to Hell?"

“Right now we are looking in a mirror that gives only a dim reflection of reality but one day we shall see reality face to face!” 1 Corinthians 13:12 (Amp)

 

RECAP:                                                                                                           

What happens after we die? At some point everyone wonders what happens after our life on Earth is finished. The Bible tells us in 2 Corinthians 4:16-5:10 that nothing we see will last forever. The only things that will last forever are things that are not seen.  Listed below are five realities of life with related Bible verses.  It is important to understand these truths to know what happens after we die. Take some time to reflect on these before continuing.

 

THE REALITIES OF LIFE

1. God made you to love you & wants your love back. (Jeremiah 31:3)
2. You were made to last forever. (Ecclesiastes 3:11)
3. God has prepared two eternal places. (John 14:2-3, Matthew 25:34, Matthew 25:41)
4. You choose where you’ll spend eternity. (Deuteronomy 11:26-28, Deuteronomy 30:15-19)
5. There is no second chance after you die. (Matthew 25:46)

 

One misconception is that God sends people to hell. On the contrary, people choose to go there by rejecting the free gift of salvation made available through Jesus Christ. Since it is a choice and there is no second chance, it is extremely important to determine your destiny now. We are not guaranteed tomorrow, or even the next hour. It would be tragic to put off securing your future until it is too late. It is simple to decide your eternal destiny as we will see later in this study.

 

Open your group with a prayer. This is only a guide – select the points you want to discuss.

 

1. WHY DOES HELL EXIST?

     1.     BECAUSE EVIL & SIN EXIST

 

According to Genesis 6:5-6, what was the primary focus of humanity?

• There is little question that evil and sin exist in our world. Name several examples of this in recent events.
• Why was God so upset and disappointed with humanity’s evil nature?

 

2. BECAUSE GOD IS HOLY & JUST

 

    Psalm    15:1-2 tells us the kind of person who can dwell with God. What are some of that individual’s characteristics?

• Contrast the description of humanity in Genesis 6:5-6 with the requirements to dwell with God.

 

 

Despite our best intentions, we all fall prey to our sinful nature, putting us squarely in the position of being imperfect. Heaven is a perfect place, because God is perfect. To bridge the gap between imperfect humanity and perfect God, there is Jesus. God also promised that all people would be judged in fairness and righteousness, therefore there will be a place for the just and the unjust, which is heaven and hell. How can you show your appreciation to God for the knowledge that no matter what happens in this life, He will balance the scales in eternity?

1. WHAT IS HELL LIKE? TOTAL SEPARATION FROM GOD.

 

In 1 Corinthians 16:22 how does this verse describe the condition of those who reject God?

 

• In this world believers and non-believers experience the blessings of God equally through His creation. Using the descriptions below in the left-hand column, how does every human experience each of these blessings? 

 

GOD IS…                               WITHOUT GOD, HELL IS…

Love                                        Terrifying & lonely

Light                                        Complete darkness

Good                                        Absolutely nothing good there

Life                                          Eternal death & torment

Gracious                                   A place of no grace

 

 

• Hell is described in the Bible as the only place in the universe God is not. Using the right-hand column above describe what people would feel if they were to exist without any of the benefits of God’s presence?
• People often say jokingly something to the effect, “See you in hell,” as if they expect their earthly experiences to continue in that place, just differently. If the real environment of hell is as described above to the right, would this be possible? What would be a more accurate statement?
• What parts of human fellowship such as fun, family, or work would be possible or not possible?

 

Fellowship – Connecting with others and with God is one of His purposes for our lives. Relationships are part of the blessings of God’s presence. While the total experience of hell may be beyond our capacity to understand, discuss in your group what an eternity with no love and only loneliness would be like. How would you describe this to a non-believer?  

 

1. WHAT’S MY RESPONSIBILITY? TELL OTHERS!

 

Why did God hold Ezekiel accountable for the evil man’s death according to Ezekiel 33:8?

• What is our role in the salvation of others?
• How does our responsibility change once we tell someone about their eternal options?

 

In Romans 10:13-15 how will others come to know the Lord?

• How does God view those who share the Good News?
• What is the sacrifice that we have to make to share God’s love? Compare that to the sacrifice God made for us.

 

God is clear on what He wants us to do. We’re not just taking people to heaven with us, we’re saving them from hell. Who do you know that needs to hear the Good News?

 

 

 

"Why Would a Loving God Send People to Hell?"

You may not have a tough time with this question, but I promise you ... the people you rub shoulders with are wondering what the answer to this question is.  I mean, think about it.  That is a HUGE question.  I gotta be honest with you.  The very question "not even the answer" seems so unbelievable to people that they will not enter into a growing relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ just because the very thought seems ... well ... ludicrous.

This weekend, we are taking about hell.  In his book called, "Erasing Hell"  Francis Chan said,  'Don't believe something just because you have to, and don't embrace an idea just because you've always believed it.  Believe what is Biblical.  Test all assumptions against the precious words God gave us in the Bible.'   As we study "hell" this weekend at Victory Church, and more specifically,  "Why Would a Loving God Send People to Hell?"  Remember, God isn't always easy to understand.  His thoughts are above our thoughts and His ways are above our ways.  Keep in mind that the sovereign Creator and Sustainer of all things, has every right to do, "whatever he pleases" (Psalm 115:3 NASB)

 

So, despite what we may want to believe, we've got to figure out what God told us to believe in His Word.  As we read and study God's Word on this topic, here are a couple other books that I think woud be a HUGE help to you:

1. "Erasing Hell - what God said about eternity, and the things we made up." - By Francis Chan & Preston Sprinkle
2. "Is hell for real?" - By Timothy Keller, R. Albert Mouler & J.I. Packer
3. "Four Views of Hell" - John Walvoord

 

Jon us this week, get a mess of your friends to come out to Victory Church in Lancaster, PA or watch us on-line at 9AM this Sunday right here.

 

GIVE ME A PIECE OF YOUR MIND:    What are your thoughts on hell?   Does it exist?  Was Jesus speaking in actual terms or were they metaphors? 

Another Church is Bucking "The American Church" Trend

Churches don't do stuff like this.  Seriously, churches are supposed to be territorial.  I mean, that’s why non-Christians HATE church, right?   According to Dan Kimball, most Americans like Jesus, but they HATE the local church.  It’s an underwritten, never spoken of, rule that too many churches operate by.  They won’t admit it, but they do.  Churches are supposed to be jealous of another churches programs, growth, ministries, facilities, success, pastors … you get the picture.

 

But recently, I read an incredible story by Matt Graybill of LCBC.  It was an eye-opening post on the “selflessness” of an older congregation in our community.   Well, I found another … or should I say, “I experienced another” self-less congregation.

 

Bethany Grace Fellowship and my church (Victory Church) are pretty much different from one another.  Not in a bad way, just different.  We are suburban, they are rural.  We started in 2000, they started in 1957.  Their background is Mennonite, ours is Pentecostal.  We have guitar and drum solo’s … and a hazer … I don’t think they do that. :-)

 

But they lead by example.  I gotta admit, I am super impressed by Pastor Adam Nagle, his leadership team, and his church.  They understand something most younger congregations, in the American church, fail to realize … “The Principle of Sowing Seeds” in the Kingdom of God.  Last week, they decided to sow a seed and bless our young, growing, different-from-theirs, congregation with a cash offering.  You read that right, CASH OFFERING.  Nothing says, "I believe in you" like cash :-)  I couldn’t believe it.  I can’t wait to share this with our tribe this week at Victory.  That mature, God-honoring congregation that meets in East Earl, PA get it.  It's not about ME or my little world, or my little Kingdom, or my little program.   It is about expamding the Kingdom of God.  It's not just about "my interests", it's about supporting and strengthening the p;aces where God is working.  God is so much bigger then my little world.

 

Their selfless act got me thinking,  “What am I doing as a pastor to expand the Kingdom that is NOT under my direct watch??  What am I giving?  Who am I blessing?”  What if we all started a revolution?   What if, instead of tearing down other churches in the Kingdom (and in our back yard), we blessed them?  Just like BGF did for us.   The Lord is working in many places.   Our question should be, “What IS He doing and how can I be a part of it?”

 

Hats off to Pastor Adam and BGF.  We need more leaders and more churches that lead in our communities like these guys are doing.  I pray the Lord blesses Adam and his church in the gracious and abundant way they have blessed us.

 

THINK ABOUT IT:   Where is God moving?  How can you sow a seed into that ministry?  Who is taking risks?  How can you bless them? 

Our NEW logo

This is not - like a "super-spiritual" post or anything, but I thought you might be interested in our new logo. 

 

GREENFIELD CAMPUS LOGO

 

 

 

 

 

THEATER CAMPUS LOGO

 

 

 

 

We will start to use this on all our print material.  We also designed one for our Theater Campus as well.  Thanks Jason from 5D Creative.   You continue to amaze us!

 

 

Day 2 of the Fast

We are on Day 2 of a 21 Days of Prayer & Fasting at Victory.  Many people are fasting many different things.  Everything from media to certain foods.  (some of our staff here wanted to fast some of our meetings ... not a chance.) 

This is an exciting time, but it can also be very challenging as well.  So, let me just take a little time to explain WHY we are fasting at Victory Church.   During this season of prayer and fasting, we seek the Lord in these areas:

• Believing God for answered prayer to our specific needs.
• Declaring our dependence on God in every area of our lives.
• Asking God for clarity on our NEXT STEP as a church.  (land, building, another site?)
• Asking for forgiveness for our sins and the sins of our land.
• Praying for the completion of the Great Commission.
• Inviting the Presence of God in our church and our lives.
• Crying out to God for revival in our generation.

Also, here are a few resources:

• Daniel Plan
• Read The Circle Maker & Fasting  (you can get a journal, DVD, the book, etc.)
  
• Pick up a "21 Day Devotional" or download it here (scroll to the bottom of the page)
• Also, go to facebook and tell us your story and keep up with my video blogs.  

Remember, ditch the whole idea of, "This is awesome, I can lose a few pounds AND be super spiritual too!"   Just deny the physical and crave the spiritual. 

 

How I Explained Joe Pa's Firing, to My 16 Year Old Son

"Dad, why did they fire Joe Pa?  He didn't do anything wrong."   While we were watching ESPN's coverage of the firing of Joe Paterno (legendary PSU head football coach), our son asked that question.  The question was a big time question.  When Drew asked me that, I have to admit that it came from left field.  I wasn't quite prepared ... I wasn't thinking in that vein.  But it was a good question, one that he and his team-mates would discuss later that day at football practice. 

Let's be honest, the firing of Joe Pa is insignificant when compared to the REAL tragedy at Penn State.  As I said yesterday, "My heart breaks for those boys and their families who have been victimized and have lived through a horrible nightmare of epic proportions.   If these charges on Jerry Sandusky are true, thank the Lord an monster has been removed from our society.  The context of Drew's question came when they were talking about the firing of Joe Pa on ESPN.

So here's what I told him.  It's what we've always told our kids.  "It's always right to do what's right."  Your emotions should not factor in to your decision to do the right thing.  Right emotions FOLLOW right action, not the other way around.   

Joe Paterno said it himself, "I wish I had done more."  "With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more.”  

In the movie "A Few Good Men", there a some great one-liners.  One of the most popular occurs when the crime is revealed and Jack Nicholson (Col. Jessup) screams at Tom Cruise (Officer Kaffey) and says, "You can't handle the truth!!"  We all know and love that line.  But there was a bigger lesson in this story.  And I think that lesson applies here.

At the end, there is an amazing dialogue that takes place between the two men who were on trial named Dawson & Downey.  When it was revealed that Col Jessup was the one who committed the crime, Dawson & Downey expected to go free.  But when the charges were handed down, both men were dishonorably discharged. Watch this

 

Downey: “What did we do wrong? We did nothing wrong.”

Dawson:  “Yeah, we did. We were supposed to fight for the people who couldn't fight for themselves. We were supposed to fight for Willie.”

Edwin Burke said it best when he stated, “All that’s necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.”

It's ALWAYS right to do what's right

It's ALWAYS right to fight for the underdog.

It's ALWAYS right to stand in front of a tank in Tiananmen Square.

It's ALWAYS right to fight for those who can't fight for themselves.

 

So, with all due respect, Coach Joe Paterno should've followed through on those claims and accusations.  He should've used his influence to make sure Sandusky was never around young boys again.  

 

"That's why he was fired, Drew.   Coach Paterno was supposed to fight for the Willies of the world.  As a matter of fact, we all are."

 

 

 

 

"Dad, Why Was Joe Pa Fired? He Didn't Do Anything Wrong."

That was the question my football loving, 16 year old football player asked me this morning as we watched ESPN before school.

If you haven’t heard what is happening at Penn State University and its legendary coach Joe Paterno, nice to see you crawling out from under your rock somewhere.  It is all over the news!  It’s crazy here in PA. 

As a dad of four, I am always looking at life through the lens of “teaching moments.”  This is a big one.  As we are watching TV and listening to the dialogue, I am wondering and asking the Lord to help me decipher the lessons I can glean from this situation.  Because people are already asking, tweeting, texting me, “What do you think?  Do you agree with how Joe Pa was treated?  What’s your stand on what has transpired?”

Let me say this, the charges brought against Jerry Sandusky for his alleged behavior are inexcusable, they are gross, they are disgusting.  My heart breaks for those boys and their families who have been victimized and have lived through a horrible nightmare of epic proportions.   If these charges on Jerry Sandusky are true, thank the Lord an monster has been removed from our society.

But last night (November 9, 2011) Joe Paterno, the head coach, was fired.   In the eyes of my teenage son,  1) Joe Pa didn’t do anything wrong, he is not even part of the investigation.   2) Jerry Sandusky was no longer on Joe Pa’s coaching staff when this was reported so why is Joe Pa being punished, and 3) Coach Paterno told the authorities above him.  Drew said, “Dad, I don’t understand why Joe Pa was fired. He didn't do anything wrong."

What would you say?   The lesson I taught him was eerily similar to a lesson I learned years ago from a classic 1992 movie called, “A Few Good Men.” 

This post is already too long ... I’ll tell you tomorrow.

"Halloween - Is it okay?" - Why most Christians will avoid this question. Don't be one of them.

I love this question!  When this time of year rolls around, I always get asked this question.  “As Christians, should we celebrate Halloween?”  I think that is a fair question.  “what SHOULD we believe about Halloween?  Is it an innocent holiday for kids, candy, costumes or should Christians avoid it all together?”

Let me first give you a little (emphasis on ‘little’ meaning ‘short’) history of Halloween.  This will be the short-version.   It actually traces back to the ancient Celts wherein, every year they would celebrate “Samhain”  (pronounced “sow-en”) or  “Lord of the dead and evil spirits.”  They believed that on October 31^st, dead spirits would rise and look for their homes.  If they couldn’t find homes, they would possess innocent people.  The Druids (like the priests) convinced the people to give an offering to appease the gods.  They would offer sacrificed horses, cats, black sheep, and sometimes, human beings.  In order to protect themselves, the townspeople would leave fruits or nuts on porches (trying to appease the spirits)

 

No question in my mind … the origin of Halloween is nothing short of DEMONIC.  But many of us know that.  We don't want to know if it is demonic or not, here's what we are really asking:  “Can my friends and family dress up, go to friends and neighbors and still go to heaven?”  Absolutely.  But, let’s not stop there … let’s review the mission of Satan.  John 10:10 says that, “The devil comes to steal, kill and destroy.  He is a deceiver, the father of lies, there is no truth in him.  He will often takes what is EVIL and tries to make it look GOOD.

Try this little experiment:

Let’s try to be objective about this holiday.  Walk into any store (Party City, etc.) and pretend that you don’t know anything about the holiday at all.  Look at the costumes and ask yourself:  “Would you categorize it as “glorifying God, neutral or does it draw you to darkness, fear, evil and death?

My personal response is that it leads toward things that are not of God.  So, based on its HISTORY and based on what a view as an OBSERVER, we as a family (this goes against 95% of culture … I know) have chosen to NOT participate in Halloween.

You Have to See the Bigger Picture:

Can you trick or treat and still have a great Christian family?  ABSOLUTELY!  But here are our three reasons WHY we do not participate:

 

#1 - We are trying to teach our kids that we are different from the world.

1 Peter 1:14,15 – “As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. ¹⁵But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do.”

This is a line in the sand for our family.  You may choose this, you may not choose this …the important question you have to answer is … ARE YOU CHOOSING SOMETHING?  Is there some place where you are saying, “We are different from the world.”

Bottom Line is this, : if you are not teaching your kids when they are little that they are different from the world, how can you expect them to be different as teens?  They’ll say, “All of our friends are doing this.”  All the while, we have not planted into them the fact that sometimes, we are different. 

No longer is it about Halloween, it is now about a PRINCIPLE.

#2 - We are teaching our kids that they will be persecuted.

2 Tim. 3:12 – “In fact, everyone who wants to live a Godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.” 

People are going to make fun of you.  We don’t let it crush us, we endure it.  It’s tough when you’re young, but it intensifies as you get older.  Here’s what I know, don’t worry if you’re being persecuted for Christ, worry if you’re not.  Because if you’re not be persecuted (AT SOME LEVEL) … should probably ask yourself, am I truly different?

 #3 - We are teaching our kids how to be different without judging.

Majority of our friends trick or treat … really it’s no big deal.  You need to understand, this is OUR FAMILY DECISION  Romans 14:1 – "Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters.”

You might still be wondering:

1. What do we do?

My advice to you is, pray and make a decision according to the PRINCIPLES of the Word of God that YOU want to raise your family by.  And don’t be swayed.

 2. What do we do on Halloween?

I think you should go in your house, shut off the lights and hid.  I Am Kidding!  Here’s a thought, the Bible says that you are the “Light of the World.” (Matt, 5:15)  Look for ways to LIGHT THE NIGHT.  We sit on our front porch and make it welcoming.  We have found it is a great way to get to know our neighbors.  EVERY YEAR, they ask us about our church and we get the opportunity to share about the community at Victory Church.  Many of them have visited, some have accepted Christ and we have even baptized some.  Pretty cool, huh? 

Stand for right principles.  It’s always right to do what’s right.

 

We’re not afraid to tackle some of those TABOO topics that most churches avoid.  You can purchase “Cow Tippin’: Tippin the Sacred Cows of Lancaster County” by contacting jturek@victorychurch.ws We tackle things like, drinking, white lies, dinosaurs, tattoos, etc. 

 

What Does the Fonz, Chicago and this weeks message have in common?

Being a child of the late 70's and 80's ... There are two things we all knew:  "The Fonz" and the killer band called "Chicago".  C'mon people, am I talkin' or what? 

To those 'less priveleged', there was a late 70's TV sitcom called "Happy Days."  (In our area, it aired on Tuesday nights ... just before Laverne & Shirley ... in case you were wondering.)   One of the stars of the "Happy Days" show was "The Fonz."  There was a later spin-off called "Cha-Chee Loves Joannie" which was flat out stupid.   Anyway, back to the original show.

One of my favorite episodes was when the Fonz was wrong and Potsie (a red-haired character in the show) was right and the Fonz had to apologize. If you know anything about the Fonz, the Fonz is never wrong, the  Fonz doesn't ever say, "I was wrong" or "I'm sorry." And so this episode was funny watching the Fonz try to even say those things to the worst person imaginable - Potsie! He literally could not get the words out. He couldn't form them.

Then the 80's came.  One of the greatest bands (besides Journey, the Cars, Rush and 38 Special) was a band called CHICAGO.  They are all old now, but back in the day, they recored this one tune called "Hard For Me To Say I'm Sorry" (kick back and check out the big hair in this video)

What these two have in common is, there is a little bit of that song and a little bit of the Fonz inside us. It can be so hard to say, "I was wrong," "I'm sorry," or "Please forgive me."  These are all good phrases to practice and be ready to speak as soon as they are needed. 

This week at Victory, we are going to unpack this whole idea of "How Do I Say I'm Sorry?"  Bottom line is, our ignorance (or lack of self-awareness) gets in the way of knowing when we are in the wrong.  Then, our pride gets in the way of offering sincere apologies when we know we are wrong. 

Listen:

-        When you are wrong, admit it... quickly.

-        When you are wrong, apologize... sincerely.

-        When you have hurt someone, own up to it and make it right ... immediately and sincerely.

This is just an healthy thing to do.

Here’s a little project for you to do. Do an all-out searching of your heart.  Try to remember the people you have hurt and to whom you never apologized and said, "I’m sorry," "Please forgive me."  Make your list of people, and start to offer some sincere apologies.  

But keep this in mind, not EVERY wrong deserves an apology. Don't re-open old wounds if in doing so, you damage the other person more than help them with your apology.   We’ll talk more about this, this week at Victory. 

After you apologize, email me ( cseaburg@victorychurch.ws ) and tell me how it went. 

 

720 People Show Up To Help a Single Mom

When the flood waters came, one young, single mom with four children lost everything.  FLOOD I mean EVERYTHING!  Homeless, car-less, and no where to go ... until one person said, "I CAN HELP!"  Then another person stepped forward and said, "I can help!"  And then another and another.   I am so proud of our church and the people that make up our community.  This is a note I received from the organizer of the "Courageous film Fundraising Event for Alicia."

WOW! When I ask you all to pass it on, you all PASS IT ON! I want to thank everyone for forwarding my email! What started as an email to about 20 friends in the hope of having a small event to raise enough money for a downpayment on a used car for Alicia ended up in a huge event with over 720 people showing up to watch Courageous, meet Alicia and her children and show their support. I received countless e-mails and phone calls from people as far away as York, Northern Lebanon, NY, and Washington DC wanting to help. (Victory) Church bought Alicia a car and a lot of kind people stepped forward to help me keep Alicia in hotels until the fund raiser last night. She is on a lot of waiting lists, but all the shelters are at capacity. Homelessness is a real problem in our community!
With the money we raised last night and all the donations that people have been sending me in the mail, Penn and I should be able to pay Alicia's rent and utilities for a whole year!! Alicia is a very strong, motivated woman and has already found work for herself, and Mary Kay replaced her lost start-up kit and her sales manager is helping her get back into Mary Kay sales.  A very kind woman, named _ is helping Alicia with childcare and she is slowly getting her life back together after a string of very unfortunate events!
Last nights event was very heart-warming. Thanks to everyone who attended, made baked goods, sent donations and spread the word! All the cheerleaders from pixies to varsity cancelled their practices last night and came out to our event. The girls helped at the bake sale, then organized a cheer for the firefighters. We went into each of the four packed theaters, asked all the firefighters to stand, everyone applauded and the cheerleaders did a cheer for them. A really fun tribute!
Alicia and I are meeting with someone from the Transitional Living Center about housing today, as well as some realtors. YAY!
This whole experience has been very eye opening. I am happy that we live in such a supportive community, but I am also shocked that there are so many people experiencing homelessness. As a board member of the Lancaster Project for the Needy, I am embarrassed to admit that I  had no idea how hard it is for someone to find a place to sleep at night once they are homeless! Alicia spent a few nights in a mold infested abandoned house with her children before we put her in the hotel and that is because the homeless shelters are all full.
The Project for the Needy also supports the Community Homeless Outreach Center in Lancaster and we are having a fundraising Gala for them on Friday November 4th at Lime Springs Farm. If anyone is interested, please let me know.
Thank you again for spreading the word!!
Peace,
_______

 

All it takes is ONE!  Not 500, not 1000, just one.  But when that one starts, it spurs others and another, and before you know it, there is an avalanche!  BE THE ONE!!!!